Why we feel pleasure at others' misfortune

HostIt's one of those things we don't like to talk about. You're walking down the street and see someone who looks a bit too cool, maybe acting like they own the place, and then they trip over a curb. For a split second, you might feel a tiny spark of joy. You might even have to hide a smile. We have all felt it, that weird bit of pleasure when things go wrong for someone else.

HostWhy does the brain give us a little treat when someone else has a bad day?

GuestIt feels a bit dark, but it's a very common human thing. We often call it schadenfreude, which is just a way of saying harm-joy. It's not usually about being a mean person. Most of the time, it's about how we feel about ourselves. We're always looking around to see where we stand in the group. We're checking if we're doing as well as the person next to us. When someone who seems like they're above us has a bit of bad luck, it's like we take a small step up the ladder without having to do any work ourselves.

HostSo it's just a shortcut to feeling better about our own lives? That makes it sound like we're all just not happy with who we are.

GuestMaybe not unhappy, but we're very tuned in to what's fair. Our brains are built to track our place in the pack because, a long time ago, your place in the pack meant everything for staying alive. If someone else is winning all the time, it can feel like you're losing. So, when that person slips up, that pressure goes away. The brain lets out a little bit of the same chemical it gives us when we eat a sweet treat. It's like a small prize for the world becoming a bit more even.

HostBut that doesn't happen with everyone. If I see a little kid fall down and get hurt, I don't feel good. I feel bad for them. So there must be a line somewhere.

GuestThere's a big line. For us to feel that joy, we usually have to feel that the person deserved it in some way. Or, we have to feel a bit of envy. If you don't care about what the other person has, you won't care when they lose it. But if someone is a bit of a show-off, that's when the feeling kicks in. It's why we love it when a guy driving way too fast gets pulled over. That's a win for our sense of fairness. It feels like the world is doing its job.

HostWhat about when it's a famous person or someone we don't even know? They haven't done anything to us, but people still love to watch them fail.

GuestWell, they're at the very top of that ladder. When someone at the top falls, it makes the rest of us feel like the gap isn't quite so wide. It brings them back down to earth. There's also a bit of bonding. If we all sit around and talk about someone else's mistake, it makes us feel like we're on the same team. We're saying, we would never do that. It draws a circle around our group and keeps us close. It's a quick way to make friends, even if it's a bit mean.

HostThat feels like a cheap way to build a friendship. Using someone else's bad day to feel like we belong seems a bit low.

GuestIt is! But it also helps groups keep people in check. If someone starts acting like they're better than everyone else, that shared laugh when they fail can bring them back in line. We even see this in very young kids. Children as young as two or three will be happy when another kid who was getting more toys has something go wrong. They haven't been taught to be mean yet. Their brains are just reacting to things being made even again.

HostSo it's more about the balance than the pain. But does this actually show up in our heads?

GuestYes, it shows up in scans. When scientists look at how the brain works, they see the reward part light up. But it only happens if the person feels the bad luck was earned. If the person seems like a good person having a hard time, the brain doesn't give that reward. Instead, it lights up in the areas that handle pain. We have these two parts always fighting. One wants us to feel for our friend, and the other wants us to feel good when a rival loses.

HostIt sounds like we're constantly judging people just to decide how to feel about their bad luck.

GuestWe are. And it's why we often feel a bit of shame after that first spark of joy. We have that first moment of feeling good, and then our other parts kick in and say, wait, that's actually sad. That's why it's a guilty pleasure. We know it's not our best side, but we can't always stop that first rush. It's a deep part of how we handle living in a group where everyone is trying to find their place.

GuestThe real test is whether we can find a way to feel a true spark of joy when someone else succeeds, which is a lot harder for the brain to do than laughing when they trip.

HostThat person tripping on the sidewalk might be a lot more like us than we think, once we look past the fancy clothes.